Stephen Walker: Okay, so
Stephen Walker: I'll start off. Can you tell us your story in terms of 3 3 areas like your faith journey, prayer, life.
Stephen Walker: and your spiritual formation.
John Blackmore: Okay?
John Blackmore: as far as my faith journey. I grew up in Illinois mostly. My parents moved from Long Beach, California. When I was only 4 years old. I'm the 4th of 5th kids. So my 3 older siblings they
John Blackmore: kind of grew up in California. Neither one of my parents grew up in what I would say is a Christian home. My mom's had a little bit of tradition, but both my parents became Christians in Junior High.
John Blackmore: My mom probably had a more stable home life than my dad. So they got married. Pretty young. Dad was in the navy. They had 5 kids pretty quick, and
John Blackmore: they just had a lot of struggles going on in their marriage, and my mom's grandparents are in Illinois. So that's how we ended up. My Mom's thought was, If I can just get our family out of Southern California. This is, we moved to Illinois in 69, and right around the corner
John Blackmore: from where we were was found with Church Christ and we were. We were not Acapella, but we were a Church Christ Restoration movement, conservative Church. So that's where I grew up in church.
John Blackmore: my parents divorced. I was probably about 8 years old, and my mom was probably the rock of the the Faith, and just seeing God always take care of us. And I was baptized in Christ. I think when I was about 11 it was kind of never really a question. That's just what you did, you know, and but I would say it was probably 18. I went to Eastern Illinois University, and I was one of those kids that I kind of knew what was right, didn't always live it. And high school. I was kind of up and down
John Blackmore: when I was 18. That's kind of when I just said, God, I'm I'm going to fully surrender to you whatever you want to do in in my life, and
John Blackmore: I dedicated my life to God there, and said, whatever you take me. And then, probably about I finished. That year of school at Eastern Illinois University, didn't really want to go back to school, didn't know what I wanted to do for certain.
John Blackmore: And there's a couple preachers. One night after a revival, my mom had them over for dinner, and then we stood out in our
John Blackmore: driveway to about midnight, and I just was asking all the questions my big questions were always about. The Christian evidence is apologetics. How do we know it's really true? So that's what led me to Bible College. And then, right away, I just fell in love with the Word of God, studying it, knowing what I wanted to be true was true, not because I wanted to be true, but it was true, and so that led me to Bible College, St. Louis Christian College, right there in Florissant, and
John Blackmore: there I met my wife, got involved in ministry, and probably the next big growth
John Blackmore: in our life was after we were married when we went to France. And you know there's I had an elder, you know, as a young guy. You take everything as a great compliment. He goes, John, you sure you sure got the gift of gab.
Steve Awtrey: 2 weeks.
John Blackmore: Look back, and I wonder what he really meant. But.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: So preaching, teaching, knowing the word, being able to communicate it. Never really, probably, was a struggle for me, but I think it was when I was in France. There, when you know your language is taken away.
John Blackmore: and you know you know your your gift, so to speak, of preaching and teaching, and just, you know, relying on God to use you when he could use you. And I'd probably say, that's my next big step. And
John Blackmore: so that's kind of my faith. Journey, my prayer life same thing. I have a great friend. He's a Ugandan pastor, and he always says, you know grass never grows on the mountaintops. It only grows in the valleys. And Pastor Edward, when he said that it's usually during the hard times of my life and ministry, when God really grows my prayer life
John Blackmore: even right now, you know, not really being affiliated with the Church, and having all kinds of
John Blackmore: just young people that I've even baptized into Christ did their weddings, and you know we had a meeting at our house. We're going to get together once a month at our house for a time of prayer. I think I think we all probably know the passage, you know, in Acts 2, 42, they devoted themselves, the apostles teaching prayer, breaking a bread and fellowship, and I just feel it's just one of the most
John Blackmore: under practiced under emphasized thing is prayer. I mean, you know we're good on Biblical teaching and doctrine. We're great on the breaking of the bread, and we're great on fellowship. But, man, it just seems like
John Blackmore: throughout my ministry, even in my own life, this desire to have a real prayer, life, personal prayer, life, and then to have that incorporated
John Blackmore: as part of the Church's life. I think it's something that I really haven't found a church that has mastered that, and that's kind of where I'm at now is my wife and I. We try to pray together daily, not saying we do it all the time, but we just got done praying before I got on here about. You know God, where do you want to lead us? But and then my own life, you know, making sure that's a priority. But and then you said faith, prayer, life, and 3.rd
Stephen Walker: Spiritual formation. You touched on that a little.
John Blackmore: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that is the book by Peter Sicarzo, that when we came together as churches I took a month sabbatical and a book I read
John Blackmore: emotionally Healthy leader. Really, really good. He's out of New York, Brooklyn. Maybe I'm not for sure. Somewhere in the New York City area. It's a great book. And actually, they have a discipleship program for a church. It's called spiritually Health, emotionally healthy spirituality. But the leadership book is, you know it takes you really down in deep. And I think
John Blackmore: one of the things, probably American culture is. We like to have things, and this is no offense to the accountants in the group. But we like to have we. We try to try to run our spiritual life a little bit like numbers, you know. And even, you know, just if we do this, this, this and this, and we're kind of a plug and play society. We got to find the answers. But there's this.
John Blackmore: this deep
John Blackmore: stillness of God, you know that I think we all long for and trying to figure out how to get there and to really, I mean he says it, and we know this in John 15. You know you got to stay in me attached, or you can't produce fruit, and you know, sometimes we try to bypass that.
John Blackmore: I'll get one more little thing on that real quick, too. I just thought of it because I did this in Bible study. We all know Ephesians, 6. Armor of God, and we all, we all jump to put on the full armor of God. But the really the 1st command. In chapter 6, there is to be strong in the Lord.
John Blackmore: and put on the full armor of God, and being strong in the Lord is. I equated it, and when I was illustrating it's like you get you get some kid going into the army. You don't give him armor and everything. The 1st thing you do is you try to kill him through physical exercise to get him into shape.
John Blackmore: because what good is armor going to do him if he is not physically strong.
John Blackmore: And I think sometimes we try to skip to putting on the armor instead of getting ourselves into that spiritual formation, because it says, 1st command is to be strong in the Lord and in his power, and then put on the armor. So I think sometimes we skip, going to the boot camp.
Stephen Walker: Hmm! That's go!
Steve Awtrey: Yeah. So, John, who are some people that have influenced your thinking and kind of some examples of that. I mean, you mentioned Peter Scars.
John Blackmore: Yeah, yeah.
Steve Awtrey: Parzo any- anyone. What are some others?
John Blackmore: Probably Francis Chan in letters to the church. I know everybody knows his book. Love. What is it? I forgot his 1st book that really made him popular.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, well, yeah.
John Blackmore: Love. I forgot. It's something. Love. Yeah, that sounds awesome love, but really crazy love bam. There.
Steve Awtrey: Crazy, though. Yeah, that's it.
John Blackmore: The one that put him on the map. But I've listened to a lot of him, and and really what I appreciate about him as I read. If I don't know if you guys have read letters to the church, I'm like this guy sounds like a restorationist because he, you know.
Steve Awtrey: Here.
John Blackmore: And it really got him in trouble with his high view of baptism. And now he's kind of he's kind of way out there on communion now almost almost a transistentiation view. So I don't know, but I think his
John Blackmore: desire for genuineness is.
John Blackmore: you know, and authenticity, and and seeking to be the real church, and not settle because I if you, if you read his book letters to the church. He was the dude man he was in California Mega church, and he said, all we were concerned about is getting a bigger box and filling up the box and not really discipling.
John Blackmore: and I think it is, and so Chan. Of course classics would be Cs. Lewis. I gave that book away to a kid yesterday. He had a 17th birthday. We celebrated it here, and I gave him. It's mere Christianity. I said this one when I was a young man.
John Blackmore: This is one that really brought me from.
John Blackmore: Okay. I don't not disbelieving in God because I grew up there. But you know that, and all the apologetic stuff is is big, you know Lee Strobel, of course, Josh Mcdowell and those type of things. But
John Blackmore: I love that side of it.
Steve Awtrey: So. Who in your primary relationships
Steve Awtrey: are helping you, being being accountable and staying on track with your faith.
John Blackmore: At this point I would. I would probably say, the guy I'm working for most right now is Travis Taves. He's the owns a funeral home, and he's the director here, and you know I just got my license and travis moved to Sullivan from Montana
John Blackmore: a month before I moved here from Daytona Beach, and.
Steve Awtrey: Hmm.
John Blackmore: And I still have a great relationship with a guy that is with sheltering wings. Dave Thomas, you know Philip is, you know, Dave, he was an elder at our church at Sullivan, I'd say during a time Dave was that main guy. But at this point Travis is someone that I rely on. You know.
John Blackmore: We were. We were at funeral home today, and Travis is he is a member of the Baptist church in town here, and but he's a good, godly man, and we kind of hit it off as 2 guys coming here
John Blackmore: at the same time. So he's the one I talked to.
John Blackmore: my, actually my, my brother-in-law, my sister Doris and her husband Don, are are great, and whoever is
John Blackmore: probably even my sister Ross's mom. Robin Sean is a great guy. I don't know if you've met Sean, but those would be the guys.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: So, John, what do you envision as the top 3 responsibilities of a lead minister.
John Blackmore: I would say number one
John Blackmore: would be making sure that the messages are both Biblical, but they're relevant and they're interesting. You know I had Bible college professor told me. If if you're boring when you preach, you've probably sinned
John Blackmore: great material so that would be number one that just making sure the teaching is both Biblical and relevant and understandable.
John Blackmore: I mean, when we, when you stand in front of people to preach, you know, you've got people
John Blackmore: like yourself that are elders or people that have been in ministry that probably know where you're going with the sermon. Then you got people who maybe have walked in there the 1st time. So having something a little bit for everyone. So that's that's it. Number 2, I would say my job, especially where I'm at, and what I've seen from my experience is
John Blackmore: pouring into those staff members and leaders of the other ministries, making sure they're equipped, making sure. Hey? I'm your number one fan. How can I help you in your ministry making them successful in that? You know those there? I you know
John Blackmore: probably as a younger guy tried to shepherd everybody in the church, and that's impossible.
John Blackmore: you know. And so, but making sure those ministries are running well, making sure those ministries those leaders are. They're taking care of themselves. That would be, you know, just spiritually, they're taking care of their families. And then, probably after that, I would say, well, along with the eldership, you guys, just you know us being a team and being one.
John Blackmore: And
John Blackmore: I've always been blessed. I don't know if I said this to Steve last time, I've always been blessed I've got. I've had really good relationships with all the elders that I've been with, and we've seen to work well as a team, you know, and making sure that praying with the elders is a huge thing, and sometimes and I can look back and say, my ministries have been at their worst when I've lost connection with the other leaders, but preaching, encouraging, and equipping that staff, motivating them.
John Blackmore: and then, making sure we, as a leadership, are one voice to the congregation.
Stephen Walker: Okay. Thank you.
Steve Awtrey: Where would you put yourself in the spectrum of introvert and extrovert.
John Blackmore: Hmm, what's introvert mean? Yeah, yeah, that that tells you a little bit.
John Blackmore: I am an extrovert I love. And and I think I said one of the things when just looking and hearing about Mcknight crossing, and just even yesterday actually was a great day, my wife and I. We drove up. We ate with our kids at a restaurant here, and then we went and saw a young couple, and then we said, Let's go to St. Louis. And actually I drove up, and we prayed in your parking lot yesterday.
John Blackmore: just for that. And but, man, I went to Panera and bread and got a coffee. St. Louis bread, Co, I think, is what you call it. But
John Blackmore: yeah, yeah.
John Blackmore: yeah. And just walking in seeing different nationalities being back in a city. We lived in France 10 years, but I I love the discovery of that, and that's probably what excites me so. But I'm an extrovert and
John Blackmore: probably to a fault where? And I think this is again a little bit with the age of understanding. I can't let people be my only only fuel. I love being around people all the time, but
John Blackmore: to a fault of sometimes letting that be my fuel, instead in letting my relationship with Christ be my fuel, and so that I kind of have to force myself. And a lot of this came from that book, emotionally healthy leader, that solitude and that time, you know, is so important, because eventually
John Blackmore: you won't be the center of everything, and you won't be that guy up there. And you know I've seen preachers just get really disgruntled, or other people that just depend on that. We call people. People are great in ministry. But
John Blackmore: yeah, I'd have to let God be there, but I would. I'm I'm an extrovert. I love people.
Stephen Walker: So so, John, can you share an occasion where you taught someone the gospel in a 1-on-one Bible study.
John Blackmore: Yeah, probably.
John Blackmore: And I think I think, I I don't know if you guys got the
John Blackmore: letter of recommendation from Paul Daniels, who's a missionary in France. When Paul was a missionary, an intern under me years and years ago, there was a young man that came to France. His name was David and David. He was an atheist. He had grown up actually in a church of Christ in Ohio. His dad was a preacher. He was a black sheep of the family, but David had no interest in going to church, or being a Christian at all.
John Blackmore: had went to Ohio State, and he came, and he opened a bank account in our town in Poitier, and
John Blackmore: the bank president was the president of our baseball club, in which I was the coach.
John Blackmore: and he asked him if he played baseball, and he did, and he goes, hey, let me give you the coach's number. And so David called me.
John Blackmore: and then he goes, are you John Blackmore? And I said, Yeah, and he goes, oh, no, this is crazy. His mom had put my number in his wallet because I was about the only missionary she knew.
Stephen Walker: It.
John Blackmore: And but a series of just talking to David kind of clearing up a little. He had a very legalistic view. He hated Christians, and that, and just walking through the Gospel with him, showing him it wasn't a legalism, it wasn't American tradition. And David went on. He gave his life to Christ. And then David went back and got a doctorate, and was teaching
John Blackmore: in a college on the East Coast for a while apologetics of all things. So that would be
John Blackmore: young couple we met with yesterday. They were they were in high school, and they just started attending our church. Neither one of their families went to school or went to church. They were seniors in high school, and this guy's grandpa came, and they started sitting on the front row. So with Austin and Lissa just not only preaching to them, but have them over the house, and then just explaining to them what it did mean to become a Christian. You know it wasn't about going to church. It was about what Jesus did on the cross.
John Blackmore: and you know, kind of that plan. There's, you know, the valley, the sin that separates us, and then, you know, the cross is the only way through Christ, and putting your faith in him and then going through. You know, what do we mean when we?
John Blackmore: How do you accept him? You know it's by faith you're saved through grace. Our faith. Response is, you know, you have to believe, and then you have to repent of your sins. And then, you know, being dying with him in Christian baptism.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: Thank you.
Steve Awtrey: When when we're looking at our culture and and the church and everything, what are some of the
Steve Awtrey: challenges? Do you see to the Church that are preeminent.
Steve Awtrey: and then also with that as a lead minister, how would you lead the congregation to rise to those challenges.
John Blackmore: I would say
John Blackmore: the good news. I'll give you the good news first, st and I just heard this yesterday. I forget where the report was. But the report is that among Gen. Z. And
John Blackmore: that there are less atheist
John Blackmore: among young people than ever before, I'm not ever before. But then this is the 1st time it's there's more people that say they believe in God in the younger generation than in my generation. So I was like, that's really great. But
John Blackmore: I would say, the challenge is there. And it's kind of interesting. They said, it's because of the content that is online. There's a lot of Christian content online. And kids that have been, they said, this young people have been basically disappointed by all institutions. But
John Blackmore: so there's a faith out there. But then comes the issue of faith is so.
John Blackmore: It's such a broad brush. It's just, you know. Believe in him, and you know we're all sinners, and you know, but God is love, and that that I think it's in 1st Peter, chapter one, where it says, you add to your faith goodness. It means like moral excellence, and to that you add perseverance. I think, taking. You know this, we're not dealing with people that maybe do not believe in God. They do believe in God, but then teaching them.
John Blackmore: it's more about just believing in Him. There. There has to be some transformation in your life, and taking faith a little deeper. That would be.
John Blackmore: The challenge is
John Blackmore: not so much like. When I was in France it was mostly everybody was an atheist. But now there's a lot of people say they're believers.
John Blackmore: but
John Blackmore: you know a lot of people are taught, and a lot of stuff that out there is. All all you have to do is believe, anyway, and God's a good God, and He loves you, and you know, kind of we went to from legalism all the way over here. You can do anything if you love God and do good things. So trying to get them back to understand. Okay, what's the next step? It's great that you believe in God. But what kind of God do you believe in? Do you believe in the God of the Bible? And then presenting that to him. So that's our challenge.
Steve Awtrey: Hmm.
John Blackmore: The second part of that question, I just think, is, how would I approach that our.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, and and lead a congregation to to the challenges. There.
John Blackmore: I think we're in a time where people desire relationships. And this is again another thing that I think there is leading people back to faith because we can have autonomy. Now with the cell phone, we can have all the knowledge we can have. We can be entertained all the time.
John Blackmore: And and you know, I catch myself doing that. I'm in a doctor's office. It's time for me to get on my phone where it used to be you. You talk to someone over there.
John Blackmore: There's a longing for relationship. And I would say the church has to be that place where those relationships are are met. There's a relational need, maybe like never before
John Blackmore: with with people, and and then another. So we have to be a congregation that
John Blackmore: develops relationships. We can't just stay.
John Blackmore: And you know. Let our light shine in a little candle party. We got it. We got to be together and encourage one another. But we also need to develop relationships, real, deep relationships outside of the body. I like to say it this way. I don't want to be in a church where we invite people just to come to our church on Sunday. I want to be in a church full of people that are inviting people to be in their lives, you know that. And then once they're in their lives, and they have that relationship. And they feel like they belong. And it's through
John Blackmore: really connecting with people of faith that people understand what it really means. So to lead it there and then, I think, just real, practically is, we're gonna have to meet people kind of where our culture is used to be, people would say, Yeah, I'm going to go to church one Sunday. No, they're going to turn on your
John Blackmore: website, or they're gonna turn on a reel or a tiktok when it comes back and all that kind of stuff to have a presence there as a body is important.
John Blackmore: and, Steve, if you were at, I think it was at the Missouri Convention you might have been at that. One of the leaders. It might have been in the pastor's time, he said. You're going to reach more people through screens than through your front door in the future.
John Blackmore: And it's not that we want. We don't want to settle for people going to church online, because that's that's but that is the starting spot right now.
John Blackmore: that's where
John Blackmore: we've got to start, especially with younger people. And this is, you know, where we're going to have to tap into some of our our younger Christians. And you know, all right. How? How do we reach your friends? You know? What is it that you stop when you're going through Facebook and listen to, you know, and to have that kind of presence there. So those are some of the practical things. But I think if people walk into our building. And they think, Wow, I'm loved here.
John Blackmore: you know, and and and and that that's gonna be weird for them. And then they walk around and say, these people really do love each other. And it's not just Sunday, you know, they, you know.
John Blackmore: I think that's that's gonna be the key more so than any kind of event, or great sermon or super music, or you know all those kind of things.
Steve Awtrey: Good. Okay. Thank you.
Stephen Walker: Okay John, share a time where you disagree with someone or someone disagree with you in a church environment and how you handle the situation.
John Blackmore: I would say I would say it was this, this last one when our churches merged together. I had some really great people that I love.
John Blackmore: and I care a lot about both in the congregation and even some among the leadership that didn't agree with our decision, and
John Blackmore: especially we. We lost a lot of our older generation of folks. A lot of that is, they just didn't want to change. They had felt like, Hey, we built this church. This is our church, and you know, we're going to do this and that. And I tried to just let I, we and we made the decision as a leadership that we're going to join. Together with the Ridge.
John Blackmore: We offered to go into any home, and we went into some of the homes and tried to tell them why we made the decision. We felt like it was a kingdom driven decision. It was something that the Ridge Church isn't for everyone.
John Blackmore: but it does fulfill a need that wasn't being here. There are people coming to Christ because the churches came together. So it was a kingdom decision, and when they disagreed, you know, we understood that, and I give a lot of credit to our elders. You know they they stood the ground. It wasn't 1 person making it. But you know, as a pastor, you're you're going to kind of be the the focal point of that, you know.
John Blackmore: But even though sometimes people were kind of disagreeable with me. I I never, never stopped
John Blackmore: letting them know I care about them. I understand what you're saying. I don't agree with it. And but that was one, and probably
John Blackmore: that would be a big one, I think when we went to France this would go way back to the beginning of our ministry. For another example is, we were going to initially start a congregation in the city of Tours, and there was a city of Poitier, which was probably about an hour drive from us, and there were 2 missionary couples there, one of those missionary couples went home.
John Blackmore: And so he, this guy had only been there 2 years, Mike, and
John Blackmore: that he was really struggling with you know, how am I going to do this. I've only been here 2 years, and we were newer than him. And we made a decision to, you know, say, okay, we're gonna change our plan from starting a church here and tour. Why start 2
John Blackmore: churches that are gonna struggle?
John Blackmore: When we didn't know what we were doing? I was 26 years old. So we made a decision to merge to to move down to Poitier and just help that church. And that's how we ended up at poitier. And that was a decision that you know, we had to explain to supporters because we had, you know, told them, this is where we're gonna be. This is what we're going to be doing. And
John Blackmore: so
John Blackmore: but you know, I try to really listen. I try not to take it personal when people disagree with me.
John Blackmore: I've had my main mind changed by elders, and you know, and I think I said this to Steve when we were there, too, is, you know, if I if if I'm your pastor and working with you guys and if you guys are sitting around a table, it's pretty
John Blackmore: prideful of me to think that somehow I got a connection with God that outweighs all your decisions. So I try to try to listen and probably listen a lot better now than I used to listen, because.
John Blackmore: you know, I really thought I'd brought in the Kingdom of God by the time I'm this age, when I was a young guy.
John Blackmore: Yeah, the world would be a lot better if they let me have the rain.
Steve Awtrey: But
John Blackmore: Yeah, you know. But I I think that
John Blackmore: just being just being truly real with one another, being able to disagree and know that doesn't affect our relationship is really key. And I still have people upset with me in town here because of our decision. But when I see them, you know.
John Blackmore: you know I try to talk to him, try to restore relationships, and, as far as it depends on me, be a man of peace.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Okay, can you talk a little bit about the decision you? You talk about the decision to merge the congregation. Is that what
Stephen Walker: you're talking about? Okay.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: So we we do have some experience there. So yeah.
Stephen Walker: wait a little bit. Thank you.
John Blackmore: Yeah, this would be. This was the 3rd time I've been at a church that's merged 1st time. I've really been the senior minister of one of the churches that merged well, the very 1st one. It was a really small church, and I was going to I was going to France to be a missionary was another guy that was a friend of mine, 2 small Christian churches. One was in Godfrey, Illinois, and the other was in Alton.
John Blackmore: and 20 years earlier.
John Blackmore: you know, I was only like 26 at this time, so I wasn't around at all. Nothing. They had split 20 years ago, and both of the churches were at a point of struggling.
John Blackmore: and I said, Hey, listen. I'm leaving to go to the mission field.
John Blackmore: You guys need to try to bring in some guy to revive this church, or we got a great minister here, Bill, who showers down here. He's a great Guy, wouldn't it be great if we just
John Blackmore: said, Hey, let's come back together, and those churches merge. And then another time what is now called Cornerstone Christian church. I was there in college, and right when I came home from the mission field. They mission. They merged together, but this one
John Blackmore: we were the smaller church this time.
John Blackmore: and this kind of happened. Matt Dudley had come to Sullivan in 2017. As a minister he grew up here, so he knew everybody in town. He has quite a story of, you know, a wild, wild drug and alcohol life, dramatically converted to Christ and came back had a heart for those that had been kind of de churched and
John Blackmore: just church hurt
John Blackmore: because he he had felt that, and so very, very good, very good preacher. So they started a church here about a year after I was here at Sullivan Church, and our church wasn't too healthy at that time, but we were. We were doing okay, but they grew exponentially. They had, like maybe 500 people coming a week. And they were in a small building. We had about 100 to 1, 25, and we were in a huge building. The church had split right before I came here.
John Blackmore: And so and we were doing okay. But just one day Matt and I started talking, and he'd come basically out of Southern Baptist. I'd come, you know, Restoration movement, and we begin to talk. And there really wasn't that much difference
John Blackmore: in our in our theology? In our approach. I knew a ton of people in the church there. He knew some of our people in our church, and then our leadership started talking. So
John Blackmore: I just felt like we could put aside some of the things
John Blackmore: in order to let the kingdom grow. Sullivan like a lot of church, a lot of towns. The churches are so divided, and we just our leadership. We just when I told the guys, hey? I had lunch with Matt? He said. He said, why don't we either swap buildings or why don't we come together, and we just thought it would be silly just to swap billing buildings. Why don't we just come together? And
John Blackmore: aren't? My my actual hope was, I don't know. I think I said this last year my hope was there would be a lot more emphasis on discipleship than there really is right now, because man, they can win people to Christ. But you know, we know that's the beginning of the thing the real work becomes when you come out of that baptistry. That's when the work becomes. It's easy.
John Blackmore: It's like it right?
John Blackmore: Wedding day is easy. It's a marriage. So, and then, you know it just it hasn't gone that way, and I just feel like, you know, that's that's a strength that I feel like I do have to to see a church grow and grow in a healthy way, not just in numbers, but in depth.
John Blackmore: So.
Steve Awtrey: Good.
Stephen Walker: Thank you.
Steve Awtrey: Can. Can you share some thoughts and experiences that you have? And I'm gonna give you 3 areas that we discussed before. But one of them is, you've talked about that a lot. The 1st one is just church missions, international and domestic. But you've already talked a lot about that. You don't spend a lot of time.
John Blackmore: Right.
Steve Awtrey: But then also work with and building unity in groups with diversity.
Steve Awtrey: And then the 3rd thing is the next generation ministry.
John Blackmore: well, the missions. You know, I think any church that is missions minded and you know and beyond and i'm sure, certainly you guys are, and especially close to our hearts is the ties already. You have with France, you know, with the missionaries there. So that's very attractive to me. I think it helps people. And for a lot of people, I mean, you guys are in a situation where you you live in diversity.
John Blackmore: A lot of people don't live in diversity. So the only time they really experience it is when they go to the mission field or on a mission trip. So that's why, missions, especially for these small Southern Illinois or Missouri churches. It's so important missions they get involved there. But diversity, I actually.
John Blackmore: I read your letter that you guys had on diversity, as probably I thought it was very well done. I think the answer, diversity is unity in Christ. And I think you guys are just along. That's a simple way. But I think
John Blackmore: you gotta be open and understand. People think differently. And and you know, we can look at the same thing, and just totally different. And to say that I understand when no, probably won't be able to really understand that, you know. But you know, understanding that
John Blackmore: Christ is the only hope. The hope of this world is Jesus Christ. And I was golly! Who was it? It wasn't long ago. I've heard it. It's an old, old quote. The most segregated time in America is 11 o'clock Sunday morning.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah. Martin Luther King. Yes.
John Blackmore: Yeah, is that it? Yeah. And and you know, and that honestly, when you know, watching a little bit of your services and seeing that. Okay.
John Blackmore: there's some real diversity here that that's exciting for me, because I think that's the church. We should be leading the charge on that. And we? We've surrendered to that. You know, man, the the you know.
John Blackmore: Antioch to Acts chapter 11. You know they were 1st called Christians there, and it was because they were from all over the world, and they had. These people have nothing in common, yet they love each other like brothers and sisters. It must be because they're all followers of Christ.
John Blackmore: when when people walk in and they see okay, we have you know asian, we have African American, we have white. We have, you know, old young, whatever it is, and they see that boy, they truly do love one another.
John Blackmore: Holy cow, that that should be our strongest witness. So again, that's part of what excites me a little bit, because, you know, down here, if you're a redhead that's diverse. I hate to say that, but you know it is. You know it's a little. It's a little bland, sometime, you know. So but and then, as far as the next generation.
John Blackmore: I think they are people. I already said this, and I think they want they want relationships more than you understand, more than we even understand. I don't think we have to try to be cool and be like them and know everything they probably
John Blackmore: many of them are probably disconnected from parents. So we need to just be who we really are. But everybody responds to love. I mean, I've had some really kind of weird people, but but, man they really, I know they genuinely care about me. And, boy that you know. That's where it says the Bible tells you love looks, overlooks a multitude of sin, you know that. So I think with them
John Blackmore: being in relationship, I don't know how to solve it. I don't want the church to be divided in layers, like all the kids, go here and the kids hang around, you know, do we do small groups as family groups, or you know something where we're not just diverse in our ethnic or education, but we're diverse in age, but we bring them together. So the next generation, I think they need relationships, and I think they really need authenticity. They don't. They don't trust
John Blackmore: so they need us to be authentic, and we can't let them down.
John Blackmore: You know. They'll remember that we all remember those people that we really was talking to a young man today at lunch had lunch with young man, that terrible relationship with his father.
John Blackmore: and today he has a hard time with his boss. And I said, Man, I just think you feel like your boss is a father figure, and he's let you down, and you're letting that interfere. You know that. So you know.
John Blackmore: we gotta be trustworthy.
Stephen Walker: Thank you, sir. So we are a congregation with small groups. John and the groups meet regularly in the Home for Bible study and to build community. Can you talk a little bit about your experience, working with small groups.
John Blackmore: I've done that when I haven't been the Senior Minister, and then I've done that a lot I. And of course you know I told you about that. This, this room here, our, our table, our thing is, we have a little French flair. We love big dinners together. That's where we really get to know people.
John Blackmore: really, the people I know best, and I think I've had the most impact on have been in my home. So.
Stephen Walker: Cool.
John Blackmore: Huge huge fan of that.
John Blackmore: and I think if I go back to that book, letters to the church by Chan, I think at Chapter 4 or 5 he speaks of a man who became a Christian in a prison.
John Blackmore: and he was so excited when he got out because he had been a gang member, and then he accepted Christ in prison, and and he was so close with his new Christian inmates. Then, when he got out, he went to church, and he was so terribly disappointed how
John Blackmore: there was no sense really of family. They got together on Sunday. They did their thing, and what
John Blackmore: know? He said. You know the gangs do a better job of really loving each other and being in each other's lives in the churches. So there's a little bit. That's a summary of the chapter, but the importance of that. And I do think that you know
John Blackmore: small groups is where it's at, you know, you know we can. We can get together, and we can have big attendance. And you know, big programs Wednesday night and that. And that's good, for you know, early Church. We all know this. They, you know, they met in the Temple courts, but they met house to house, too, and
John Blackmore: And that's that is so important. We do it all sorts of way. I've done it all sorts of way. I've done things like Henry Blackaby wrote a book experiencing God, and then he wrote one not long after that, experiencing God together, and that's that's the name. Now, the original title was a Christ centered church or something, but it's experiencing God together, which is a great
John Blackmore: study about that. How we, you know, experiencing God was a great book on. You know how God speaks to us, but then, experiencing God together, you know, is that whole thing where 2 or 3 meet together in His name. He's Christ is present in some strange, different way when we're together than He is in my life alone. And so when I was at Chapel Hill, all our small groups studied that same
John Blackmore: study. And then I think that's kind of the most effective personally is that
John Blackmore: our small groups, they they are studying the same study. So that becomes a conversation. And that's something led by us. It's like, Okay, where does our church need right now? What? What? What do they need, if it, if it's need, they need to have better understanding of the Holy Spirit, you know where or if they need a better understanding of, you know salvation, or you know Old Testament, or whatever you know, that we kind of decide it and help shepherd them that way. And then
John Blackmore: one thing I've done when I when I was doing that I would
John Blackmore: they would read that. But I would have a little summary and some maybe discussion questions some people, and if they wanted to use them they could. They didn't want to use them. I didn't care. But some people they have a little bit of a study guide that helps.
John Blackmore: you know, helps other people step into leadership, you know. So
John Blackmore: yeah, definitely, I I would say that. And I'm 1 for just the fellowship meal together, you know not. Every meeting has to be baptized as super spiritual with, you know. We have to have 15 min of that that just doing life together.
John Blackmore: important.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Walker: Sir.
Steve Awtrey: Well, here's our last question, and it's and and this last question is.
Steve Awtrey: what question would you like for us to ask you that we haven't asked.
John Blackmore: boy, there, there's a couple, probably the probably the the big ones.
John Blackmore: Yeah, yeah, is my my wife and I, are we going to be part of the body.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: Are we going to be the preacher and his wife?
John Blackmore: I think that that would be one, that
John Blackmore: I've had both experiences where I've been viewed as really part of the church.
John Blackmore: and then I've been in place as well, and I actually had an elder. Tell me this one time he goes.
John Blackmore: preachers come and go, but their church is always here.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Steve Awtrey: Hmm.
John Blackmore: And I mean, you know, sometimes we forget. Man, I'm your brother in Christ and my wife.
John Blackmore: Yeah, no.
John Blackmore: you know. And guys, maybe we can handle that a little bit better. You know there's a book called the Friendless American Male. That's a good old read, but you know my wife and I. We want to be part of a body of Christ
John Blackmore: where we walk into room, and I don't have to be on. I I you know. I don't have to be called pastor or minister, or.
John Blackmore: You were talking about confronting people. I don't know if I said this before or not, but 2 young men that I had a big impact on their life. One was 10 years younger than me, and one was
John Blackmore: 20 years younger than me. I was probably 40, so one was 30, and one was 20, and I baptized a 20 year old and his wife. But one day those 2 young guys came to my office when I was 40 years old, and they're both quiet. I'm a pretty hard guy, I guess, sometimes to, you know, being a preacher 10 years older and have an influence on their life. But they came. I said, Okay, what's up, guys? You're kind of quiet, you know what's here? And they and they wanted to sit down and talk to me about sometimes how I speak to my wife.
John Blackmore: and I was like holy cow. I 1st of all, I was like, you guys got guts, you know.
John Blackmore: you know
John Blackmore: I mean not only the strong personality, but I was her pastor and an influence in her life, and you know I just thought
John Blackmore: that was so. Such a good thing for them and for me to. And and I'm still close to those guys. One was a dentist in Grand Rapids, the other guys in La, and we're still great friends, and I really really respected them because they were able to treat me like their brother in Christ, even though I was their pastor.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I would say for me, that's gonna be important, you know, cause.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
John Blackmore: We want to have a church home, too. We want to be part of a body of Christ, too. We don't want to. Just my role is to be the minister. My role is to be a shepherd there, and but also and it's going to have to come from you guys, you know, for myself and and for my wife to be able to say, we have a church family also.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, I guess I can answer that for you, because I was for so many, 22 years was a a paid staff member, and I'm still here.
John Blackmore: Okay, yeah, that's a good. Yeah, that's a good testimony. Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: And and then, you know. Then Jeff Kreider came in. 92, the guy that's retiring. 1st of all, he was there for a long time.
Steve Awtrey: and he's decided to stay.
John Blackmore: Oh, that's good!
Steve Awtrey: Yeah. And so I I would say definitely that that's 1 of the
Steve Awtrey: one of the special things about this church. And you know, and again, for I was with Mid county. But the merger, you know it's it's just so much of. It's the same church we honor and respect
Steve Awtrey: are.
Steve Awtrey: I hate to put this way, but our paid staff that they're people to, and they have families, and that they they have needs, and and that very respectful of that.
John Blackmore: That that's great. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, I would say, that's important.
John Blackmore: And then I guess here's my other question. This is one that I would I, if you guys had to say, here is our sacred cow?
John Blackmore: Is there a sacred cow at Mcknight crossings.
Stephen Walker: Bye.
Steve Awtrey: Hmm.
John Blackmore: Like when I'll give you example. When I came here they did a thing called Journey to Bethlehem. They got it from Harvester, did it, and then they did it. They did it here 20 years. They had 2 things they did, and they had journey to Bethlehem.
John Blackmore: that at at 1 point it became it was really good program. But then it just became a thing they did, and there was fighting about how people spoke and dressed, and what roles they did. It was more divisive in the church than they ever understood.
Steve Awtrey: Wow, yeah.
John Blackmore: And then there was another great program called Upward Basketball, but
John Blackmore: it we were too small. The church had been through a split word, and it wore people out. And there were 2 programs that I said, Hey, guys, we need to put these on the shelf first.st One's 20 years old. It's not really meeting the need, you know, and the other one is just wearing us out. And people were just using us as a community basketball league. No one was paying attention to the halftime devotions or anything, and those were cows.
John Blackmore: and we all know what has to happen to sacred cows. We have to slaughter them, you know, if you guys would say, boy, there's something here that you know is a sacred cow.
Stephen Walker: You know that's a great question, and it
Stephen Walker: is. It is making me think a little bit about. Do we have sacred cows and
Stephen Walker: I I don't know if we do. One of the things that we're trying to be very deliberate about is being adaptable.
Stephen Walker: so that we don't get stuck in places where it becomes unhealthy, and and we lose sight of the relevancy of being relevant to our community. I think that's what we want to do we see ourselves as trying to evolve so we could be relevant to the community, not just to the people inside of the building, but out to our community. And so just having that mindset
Stephen Walker: hopefully help us not to be get too wrapped up in something that we call the sacred cow, because we realize to be relevant. Sometimes you can be, you can get stuck in the place and then you lose relevance when you get stuck in a place sometimes, and so
Stephen Walker: but as I think about that, there's probably some things that would be kind of hard for us to say no to
Stephen Walker: and one of the things that come to mind, probably, you know, is like we feed 50 families a month through our food pantry.
Stephen Walker: And now we might have to scale that back in terms of, because we we're open weekly, but it might come a time where we may be open by monthly, but but I don't know if it'd be a time where we would say we don't want to do that again more, you know, so so I guess there could be some, but I just nothing really stands out right now for me.
John Blackmore: Yeah, okay.
John Blackmore: I just think that's a good thing. And and you know, if we realize, okay, we might have to adapt. Let's just say the the feeding. Okay? Because maybe they're a small congregation
John Blackmore: around us
John Blackmore: that maybe we can incorporate, that. Maybe they're not doing much, but maybe have them help us, because as one way we tried to save journey to Bethlehem is saying, Hey, why don't we get some of these other churches to come in? And you know we had, like 7 stations. Let the Baptist church do this station. Let the Catholic Church do that station, and it's like man. We all agree, you know, but it was like, Oh, no, this is ours, you know, and it's like, No, but you know
John Blackmore: so even some ways of adapting that, and then, understanding what might, especially now, how quick the world changes. What worked 5 years ago might not work now. But yeah.
John Blackmore: but and and I then I would say, the 3rd thing is always running that through. Okay, is this in line with the vision of what we want to be about as a church, you know, calls us to take care of our community. This is a way we reach out to the community, and this is, the community knows is that we're here. So.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, I think one sacred cow we might have, which is maybe I never would have put it in this place, but it's something that's very important, that I don't think we want to change is our women's role.
Steve Awtrey: And you know, we have an expanded women's role. And that's that's very important to us. It's out of conviction.
Steve Awtrey: not out of
Steve Awtrey: something that we of convenience or something that we just want to do. We feel that out of.
John Blackmore: And that was something that was very attractive to me. When I saw you had shepherding couples I was something I thought, okay, hey, cause, I know. And you guys know that I mean outside Evangelical when they look and think church of Christ or Christian Church. They really think we're. You know
John Blackmore: we're almost amish, you know. But you know, I thought, Wow, that that's good. In this day and age, you know, understanding, you know, the the expanding role of women in our culture. And there is, there's always, and it's good to have that tension between. We got to remain Biblical. But we got to remain cultural. And we got, you know, and those things that maybe
John Blackmore: I grew up with that where? Oh, that's a Biblical thing that's not a really Biblical mandate. And I got to understand that, you know, that is more of a cultural thing. We don't. We can't culturalize everything. There are those essentials we got to understand. But
John Blackmore: and it's all about reaching people for Christ.
John Blackmore: Vs. Lewis, one of my
John Blackmore: guys I love is, you know. I think it's in mere Christianity says my job is to get them in the house and let them choose the room.
John Blackmore: you know. And and you know there might be people that you know we bring into the kingdom, but you know, maybe they go somewhere else, I mean, but we brought them into the kingdom. That's that's what it's about. That's what we're supposed to be doing. So that's okay. It's just like.
John Blackmore: you know, our decision here recently, I know people are coming into the kingdom did everything end up the way? I thought it should. Probably not.
John Blackmore: But that's okay, because God's going to honor that. And there's going to be people in heaven, and their eternities change because of the the small part that we got to play in that. And my wife and I said this might have been the only thing that ever got us out of our comfortable zone to ever possibly leave Sullivan.
John Blackmore: you know, because, you know, life can be. I can kick back right now and be okay. But you know, maybe this is where God said, No, I want to use you someplace now. I mean acts 8.
John Blackmore: They weren't leaving Jerusalem. So he said, Let's have a little persecution, and then you'll go to Samaria, Judea, and to the ends of the earth, and that's what happened, you know. So anyway.
John Blackmore: there you go.
Steve Awtrey: Hmm!
Steve Awtrey: Any other questions you might have or want us to ask you. You can ask us.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I
John Blackmore: I would sure I would, sure if if we want to continue, I would love to. Just
John Blackmore: sit down kind of the face to face and and spend some time praying together. I think that would be. Do you guys, that would be my question. Do you guys have that. I think you seem open to that. I really going back to what? The very 1st question I really want this decision. I want my ministry to be based on my prayer more than it's ever been in my life. If you guys are open to like, okay, let's let you know
John Blackmore: taking that time, and I know we. I think, Steve, you said you do business one time, and then you spend a little other time on shepherding, but on shepherding. Sometimes we can
John Blackmore: really
John Blackmore: begin to talk about almost a to-do list and visiting with people rather than just really praying, praying folks. You know, I know what's saved my relationship with a lot of people is hearing their heart before the Lord. You know, when I hear them pray. Maybe some things about their personality, or their point of view, or the things they hold dear kind of. Bug me a little bit. But, man, when I hear them pray.
John Blackmore: you know there's something about that. So you guys open to. Really.
John Blackmore: I would I would enjoy that before we ever made any other decision is serious time. Evening just praying together, really getting to know each other's testimonies and being able to do that. I think that's
John Blackmore: that's that's why we had deacons.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: So they could devote themselves to prayer and preaching of the Word. You know.
Steve Awtrey: And.
John Blackmore: Again, so.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: But all I got.
Steve Awtrey: Okay.
Don Fitzgerald: Yeah, I like to ask a question, John, it just.
John Blackmore: Sure.
Don Fitzgerald: Curious. Just can you tell us a little bit about your your family, your wife, your children.
John Blackmore: Oh, yeah, yeah, that yeah, Laura and I. This year we'll celebrate 40 years together.
John Blackmore: And so we've been married 40 years, and
John Blackmore: Laura's she is lights up a room when she walks in. She's it's kind of funny in my family, as I said, there are 5 of us kids. All the other in-laws are very quiet, all of us kids. But Laura is, we're we're both pretty extrovert people, you know. She's got a more introvert side, I think, sometimes, too. But so she's
John Blackmore: even in this. This is, this is a place we didn't think we would be, you know, doing right now. And you know, we're like, okay, we're kind of getting a little excited about the next adventure, you know. So that's that's Laura. And
John Blackmore: you know, we started dating 2 weeks after I was in Bible College. We got married before my sophomore year there, and so we've been together ever since, and
John Blackmore: she knows everything about me. I know everything about her. We can push each other's buttons really, just by looking each other. Hallelujah!
John Blackmore: And then, my boys, my oldest son, Andrew. He's 27, been married. He graduated from Liberty University, where he met his wife. She's from Virginia. He worked for a congresswoman. He lived a couple of years in DC. And then just knew that you have to be ate up with that to live out there, and he didn't want to do that. So they moved back here.
John Blackmore: He works at a bank here in Sullivan. His wife works for the State of Missouri, and then my younger son, who's going to be 24 this month Matthew graduated from Central Christian College of the Bible. He also won one year to liberty.
John Blackmore: was going to do. Education kind of resisted and resisted. He's the quiet one of the family, and then, you know, God has called him into the ministry. He's still ministering at the Ridge, and he is. He's actually working part-time as a pharmacy tech and then doing a young adult ministry at the Ridge doesn't know. He, of course, both both of my sons have been on adventures. You know Matthew was an Israel and archaeological dig. Andrew.
Steve Awtrey: Well.
John Blackmore: He did 6 weeks in Iraq. While I was in college at a refugee camp teaching English. They both went on mission trips around the world. But Matthew's like Dad. I just might.
John Blackmore: Where's my next adventure? Because they they hear about all our stuff, all the crazy stuff we did living in France. So, but they're both. What I'm most proud of is both these boys. Their faith is really their own
John Blackmore: you know. They grew up in it, and for a while it was ours, and they they both serve Christ, and they both love the Lord Andrew's good husband to his wife. They don't have kids yet. So but he, he's working. He's working full time, but they go to a church over called Union in Union Missouri Union Community Church, and they love that. It's a small church. It's like a church plant.
John Blackmore: Then Matthews goes here at the Ridge, but they're great boys. I'm very proud of them, and they know what life's about. They they know, you know, whatever you know, and when it all ends it counts what you do for the kingdom. So.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: So, yeah.
Don Fitzgerald: You said, your wife works for Bjc.
John Blackmore: Yeah, she she's always, and being a preacher, she just got involved. She got an associate's degree from St. Louis in business, and then she got a bachelor's from Lincoln Christian College when I was going to seminary there.
John Blackmore: and so she got involved in being a unit clerk. And then that's kind of always followed her. She's really good at her job. She's a very conscientious worker. She worked down at Halifax Hospital when we were in Detroit. Now she works 3 days a week out here at the Sullivan, Bjc. She works in the medical office. She's just a scheduler now, which is.
John Blackmore: she found it kind of boring at first, st but now I think she kind of likes it. She's at Halifax. She was in the the
John Blackmore: what do you call it the
John Blackmore: the Icu like kind of gunshots. Car wrecks. Yeah, that kind of stuff. It was 6, 36 bed, I think. Icu.
John Blackmore: I think they have about 32 beds at Sullivan Hospital, anyway. So it's a little different. But so she does that. And you know we've that she's always carried our insurance because ministry a lot of times you know, churches don't carry your insurance, or in the package, or anything like that. So she's always done that, and
John Blackmore: that's she's a good witness at work to folks. She, you know I won't. She doesn't. She's a great vocalist. She sings real well would rap. But she
John Blackmore: teaches she does. She's led Women's Sunday School class at Sullivan. We started that she just finished up a woman study. So she's a she's a really good, I tell her she's like needs to go on the circuit. She's very good.
John Blackmore: She's a good teacher, so that's something.
John Blackmore: So if we would, if we had eventually be up there in St. Louis, she would. Probably she has a few years, and then she would have a retirement, but she would probably see if either
John Blackmore: she works 3 days a week now she works Monday, Tuesday and Friday. Now. So yeah.
david weiler: Well, let me jump into John. This is.
John Blackmore: Okay. Good.
david weiler: You get to know you, and I wanted to get a question in.
John Blackmore: Sure.
david weiler: Step for you. You know, if you find the ideal situation, how much longer do you see yourself doing full-time ministry, you know, to to put Cap on your career. What does that look like in your heart?
John Blackmore: Well, I got a couple answers to that. I do not feel I'm the age, but everybody. No one ever says they feel the age until they fall playing pickleball or something like that. But anyway.
John Blackmore: you know, this is why we took a little time, you know, waiting to see, because both of us. We've wait. This is.
John Blackmore: it's a it's a huge commitment moving to a church and
John Blackmore: starting again. You know, it's a it's a lot of energy. It's a lot of time. So we thought about that.
John Blackmore: I don't know if you guys are familiar with Ben Merrill. He's the one that he went to Harvester Christian Church. We were kind of all in college when he moved there. Ben was 65 when he moved to Harvester. Now he's an anomaly.
John Blackmore: But you know, when I got hired at Bethal, the Bethal elders and I went down and we sit down with Ben Merrill there, and we just said, Okay, what do we need to do? So I got, I got almost 7 years on Ben Merrill. So
John Blackmore: I don't know if I'm gonna preach till I'm 82, or anything like that. But I honestly feel like right now I could safely say, that my experience is better. I I would, I would say I have, at least till I'm 70. I feel like I mean right now. I'm in good health.
John Blackmore: Have a little bit of that arthritis going in the because I always thought they were saying, lift with your back. But they were saying, Lift your legs so that didn't work out too well. But you know that's it. Yeah, I'm healthy. I'm not on any. I don't have any kind of medications or anything like that. Praise God! I've always tried to be active so. And I, you know, as we started
John Blackmore: this whole process of thinking of getting back into ministry. You know.
John Blackmore: So I think my older sister is the 1st one that said something about Mcknight, and I said, No, you know I don't know if I'm ready, and we took a lot of time thinking about. Do we want to do this? And it would have to be a situation where we felt like, this is where God wants to use me
John Blackmore: and wants to use us. I feel like I could do this.
John Blackmore: I don't feel any. The miracle happened. I don't know if it's a
John Blackmore: what it is getting older. I don't need to sleep. I used to need. I don't know if you guys are there. It doesn't matter.
Don Fitzgerald: Definitely, not.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I used to be that guy that needed 7 or 8 h. But I'm like, I sleep 4 or 5 h. I'm good and.
Steve Awtrey: No.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what that's about. That happened when I was about. I remember about 53 years old. I just didn't need as much sleep. So I don't know. I don't know if that means I'm gonna be President in 20 years.
John Blackmore: Sorry had to throw that in. But
John Blackmore: yeah, no. But you know, I feel like I could do this, and I wouldn't even consider doing this if I didn't think I could at least. Do you know 10 solid years of ministry?
John Blackmore: And then, you know, I love the fact that that the minister is still there, because I think that helps me so much. You know him being there to, you know, hopefully befriend and help me as I get started, and I would hope that that would continue. You know that I feel the same as you feel, Steve. You know that, hey? This is our church home. We're going to stay here, and I'll stay on and just serve.
John Blackmore: You know whatever that means, you know, doing and and being a support to whoever that next guy is. But
John Blackmore: is that answered, how about yeah. 11 years 7 years old, at least. And then I'll consider something.
david weiler: I appreciate that.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
david weiler: I also wanted to ask. I I appreciate the experience you've had with this recent merger. I say, recent year and a half ago, I guess something like that
david weiler: a year and a half beyond that. And you know, are you actively looking for something else? Or have we come along kind of as an anomaly. You're happy where you are now, or is there something post merger that's like, yeah, we belong somewhere else. And we need to figure out where that is. Can you describe that situation for us a little bit.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I think I can. I think, you know, I was. I was with the church up until October, and
John Blackmore: I really I thought
John Blackmore: I thought, you know, and maybe it's just listen to too many people saying, you know, maybe it's time to switch roles because I enjoy preaching, and I love teaching. I love, I just, I love it. And I thought you know
John Blackmore: to the point. And I think I said this last time is, you know I my biggest prayers when I get up front, is, you know, God, you know. Guard my heart here. It needs to be about you, not about me, and that's easier the older you get. But you know I've always enjoyed that. I really thought
John Blackmore: this would be kind of good. They're younger
John Blackmore: they're reaching people. I can come in and kind of take a little bit of a back seat, and and, you know, encourage them, you know, kind of what I've talked about, what a major role would be. There is encouraging the minister supporting them. But
John Blackmore: they started to. They're really.
John Blackmore: You only can disciple people who want to be discipled, and you only can teach people who want to be taught, you know. And they I don't think they feel like they? They need that and
John Blackmore: so. And then I just thought, man, I I miss, you know, leading.
John Blackmore: you know God's. I've always accidentally ended up in leadership.
John Blackmore: I was leading the French team 3 years into. I was 2728 years old, and I'm leading a missionary team, and I'm still trying to remember what past tense and present tense is in French. You know I wasn't ready for it, but I've always been leadership, and I miss it, and I didn't want to miss it just to miss it, because I want to be up front. I want to miss it, because that's what God has called me, and and there are certain certainly there are other things I could do to minister to people, but
John Blackmore: I feel like I got more more to give.
John Blackmore: and if it and so for 2 months there were churches that called, and we thought about it. And we thought, we're not going to do anything, and then we just begin to think about it, and we begin to look a little bit. And I begin to think. And then it was really when I started thinking about man being in full-time ministry again.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I started feeling and smiling a little bit more. It's like, Yeah, I think this is what God's created me to do. And I still think I probably honestly. And I'm not saying this because this is a job interview or anything like that. I feel like I have so much more to offer now than I've ever had, because I have. I think, the ability
John Blackmore: to reach people of different ages. I have the knowledge. I have that experience. But now I have the piece of why I'm doing it so I really think this could be a really good capstone project. If you want to put that on on my ministry to to be in a place
John Blackmore: to to see this church. You guys seem to have kind of the same vision that I have for things, and I think that you know, as long as we stay together and pray together, and allow him to guide us, man.
John Blackmore: no telling what God can do, you know. So I don't think, yeah. So that that's where I'm at.
david weiler: Thanks for elaborating on that when our churches merged together. Maybe it's been 13 years ago or so. I think. You know, we had 2 lead ministers really sharing a lot of things, and was it maybe one year into it? One of them felt a call to another work, and we were left with one. And so just the dynamics of that, it's not always negative. And what's going on with that. But I appreciate you elaborating on on those things.
david weiler: Yeah, yeah, appreciate it.
John Blackmore: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for asking. This is so good for me, too, because it's making me think through some of this stuff. Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: Just kind of a side note. Did you ever meet any of our our missionaries in Marseille, France?
John Blackmore: I am going there. I'm going there my goddaughter, our goddaughter is turning 30. She's a doctor, and her parents were our best friends, and they, as far as we know, they never came to Christ. But we had such a close relationship.
John Blackmore: They asked me to be the godfather of Ocn. It's ocean with an E on it. Ocn. And she's turning 30. Unfortunately, my my good friend, he died, and her mom died when she was only 50. I flew back and did her funeral. So she's like our daughter, and she's having a baby at the end of this month, and then she's going to be 30. So we're going over there. And I had contacted Craig Young. This is how everything kind of got started.
Steve Awtrey: Oh, yeah.
John Blackmore: That's right, I texted Ross. I said, Hey, man, tell me about that missionary. And then when I talked to Craig Young, apparently we have met.
John Blackmore: Oh, oh, yeah, years ago, or he's met people
John Blackmore: from Poitier part of our church and
John Blackmore: cause you know. And so when I talked to him so we're gonna go there. We're gonna spend April 20 second with him. And you guys bought a monastery in France. And I'm like, man, that's my dream, you know.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, yeah.
John Blackmore: What really hit me and what really excited me about visiting their ministry. You could see I'm coming alive talking about missions. But when I saw the videos, and it was young adults that were purely French, talking about their faith in Christ.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
John Blackmore: They didn't have a stupid American accent.
John Blackmore: And that oh, man, that's that's the dream, because now that you have a generation that's grown up in him. So yeah, that would be something that is, you know, that's a big plus for me to to be able. We both speak French fluently. We love.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, that's great. Yeah.
John Blackmore: Involved in that. So you know, Philip speaks French, although it's African French. But that's okay.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
John Blackmore: So. Yeah, but I'm anxious to meet him and his wife, and and.
Steve Awtrey: Great people.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: They've done an incredible work there for over 30 years.
Steve Awtrey: Oh, just amazing!
John Blackmore: Yeah, I know. I know. I think they went one year before us. I think they went 1990. We were there in 91 to 99.
John Blackmore: Okay, yeah, that was our, our French years. So yeah.
Steve Awtrey: Muted.
Don Fitzgerald: You're muted, Steve.
Steve Awtrey: Still muted.
John Blackmore: Alright! Bear with me!
Stephen Walker: Zoom anything else for us, John, before we.
John Blackmore: No, and I don't know if I asked this last time, Steve, I guess you guys will get together and talk, and then kind of tell me your process and your timing, what you guys are thinking what things go forward.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, so that that's pretty much true. We we will share this with one or 2 other guys. That wasn't, it would be on tonight, and then I think our elders meeting is coming up on the 10, th and we'll we'll spend some time talking on the 10, th and maybe a day or 2 after that we'll get back with you. You know what what's going on. So kinda fill out, fill you out there. And so so that's the thought process.
John Blackmore: Yeah, okay.
John Blackmore: well, yeah, that sounds that sounds good to to to me. And I do look forward to. If you know, if you guys say, Hey, we'd like to go a little bit further, you know, with me. I would love to visit with you, you know. That would be
John Blackmore: okay. Alright.
Steve Awtrey: Great sounds, good.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: Can I lead a prayer before we end?
Steve Awtrey: For sure? Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: God thanks for John. Thank you for his family. Thank you for his faith for the desires of his heart
Steve Awtrey: and, father. Thank you for each of these men here also, and just in their faith and Lord, we we bring this to you, and we are looking for someone who will help us
Steve Awtrey: just spread the word. And just and to just to be your kingdom builders here.
Steve Awtrey: and just
Steve Awtrey: I know John is looking for a place, and I I pray that you will show both of us what is best for your kingdom.
Steve Awtrey: Oh, cool
Steve Awtrey: again. Thank you for John, and thank you for this time we've had. It's your son Jesus. Name that I pray. Amen.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
david weiler: Man.
John Blackmore: Man. Thank you, guys, hey? We enjoyed it. I appreciate y'all. And either way, hope good to meet you guys sometime soon. Alright, God bless you! Have a good night.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Alright, bye-bye!
John Blackmore: There we go.
Stephen Walker: There, it's all alright.
Stephen Walker: Well.
david weiler: All right.
david weiler: Process. Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Yeah process. So you, so what? What are the thoughts?
david weiler: Alright! I'll jump in 1st here.
david weiler: Oh.
david weiler: I think he's an impressive individual. I think he's got a lot of solid experience that would be applicable to us.
david weiler: And so I asked the question about you know, timing how much longer his career will be? Because I'm a little concerned about that. But, I don't think that's a deal breaker. I think. I think if we had any candidate, even if we hire somebody who's 30. And we thought, Okay, we can get 10 years out of him before he moves on. It's hard to. We'd like more than that. But it's hard to expect more than that, you know.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yeah.
david weiler: And so I think he's genuine about that. And it's, you know everybody's crystal ball is only so good, so I don't see that as a deal breaker, and he does seem, I thought. You know he's our older congregation will resonate with him.
david weiler: cause he's there.
david weiler: but it does seem like he's got an evangelical bent as opposed to maintaining, you know, I think.
david weiler: is going to be about growing things, and sees the value of the next generation, and you know the mission field type mindset. So anyway, I thought those were all pluses and was happy that we got a candidate like that again to interview with.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, I was very impressed with them. Got a lot of great experience and
Steve Awtrey: different experiences he's had that, I think would be very valuable. I mean just I can't think of anything negative except for the age factor
Steve Awtrey: and and that's
Steve Awtrey: and that's the only thing that I I
Steve Awtrey: am concerned about, because wanting to, and he might be able to relate with the younger people to bring in the younger people. I don't know but that that's just my only thing that I
Steve Awtrey: I am concerned about. Everything else is great.
Don Fitzgerald: I mean, I I agree with both of you guys on that. I mean very impressive.
Don Fitzgerald: he's I think of all the candidates we've had. He's the one that I feel like
Don Fitzgerald: has more of a commanding presence, I mean very confident.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Don Fitzgerald: Himself, you know, and his abilities, and
Don Fitzgerald: and I think he can deliver on that, too. Sounds like, you know, just with the experience and things that he's had
Don Fitzgerald: and in a lot of ways. Probably
Don Fitzgerald: one of the better candidates we've had, except that I do agree with Steve. Just.
Don Fitzgerald: you know, we've always where we've been talking so far about having somebody that
Don Fitzgerald: younger that would, you know, bring that different perspective. But also, you know, just have.
Don Fitzgerald: That is sort of that front person that
Don Fitzgerald: you know, hoping that that would help, you know. Bring some more of that younger
Don Fitzgerald: crowd to us, and he, and like the Steven, Dave said he might be able to do that, I think.
Don Fitzgerald: But it's just a little different than what we were kind of picturing, I think, as we were.
Don Fitzgerald: I don't know if that should be a deal breaker or not. I mean, I'm again very impressed.
Don Fitzgerald: and maybe it would be
Don Fitzgerald: worth it to bring in and have him preach and teach, and just kind of see what the congregation says, you know, and get a pulse that way. See what some of our younger folks say about it, or don't say about it, or whatever.
Don Fitzgerald: I don't think we would be disappointed by pursuing him further. You know. I guess what I'm saying.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: And I kind of feel confident that if we offered him the job he'd take it.
Don Fitzgerald: The other big unknown. We don't know yet is the whole salary thing, you know. If we had trouble with those younger guys.
Steve Awtrey: Well, the Christian no Christian church is.
Steve Awtrey: does a I mean, and then he's at a small Christian church. Their salaries are lower than Church of Christ, generally speaking.
Steve Awtrey: so they've they've not gotten them up there from my experience and and people I've talked with.
Don Fitzgerald: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. But I mean.
Don Fitzgerald: I just figured that I'd hate to be bit by that again if if we did like him and pursue.
david weiler: I, yeah.
Steve Awtrey: And and then his experience there with the the new church.
Stephen Walker: That's.
Steve Awtrey: But he was. He was full-time, there was he part-time there.
Stephen Walker: It wasn't full time. I think it was full time he was full time merger and
Stephen Walker: so you say, left in October, so he's decided to go into like funeral director working.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, right? Yeah, travel.
david weiler: Okay. His resume says, October 23, to Current Ridge Church of Christ Missions, pastor. So that's not been updated. It was more like October 23 to October 24. He did that.
david weiler: he said. October was is when he separated.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Don Fitzgerald: Hey? Brett been silent?
david weiler: Okay.
Bret Blackford: Yeah. It's a
Bret Blackford: you know. I don't have a good bearing on his age, he said. He wants to work till he's 70. I'm guessing. He's like 61, he said. His wife is 62, I'm guessing said she's got 3 more. What's that.
Stephen Walker: 59. He said, Yeah, yeah, he's.
Don Fitzgerald: 69, yeah.
Bret Blackford: So his wife is 62.
Don Fitzgerald: I don't know about that.
Bret Blackford: Is that you said she was gonna work 3 more years. So I'm just.
Steve Awtrey: So that means she's probably 59, and she could at 60.
Don Fitzgerald: Includes.
Steve Awtrey: Hired in.
Bret Blackford: Okay, that would make sense.
Bret Blackford: So they've been married.
Stephen Walker: What do you.
Bret Blackford: 40 years. So they were puppy. They were like Fitzgerald. Okay.
Don Fitzgerald: They were much older than me.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Bret Blackford: So I yeah, I I like, I said before, I think he's got a lot to offer. I just don't know.
Bret Blackford: You know. It just seems like
Bret Blackford: If if we were gonna have them for 4 or 5 years, I think it'd be great.
Bret Blackford: You know, when he's 65, you know I don't know.
Bret Blackford: I've never been in a situation where a minister is getting old, and you have to ask him to leave, but
Bret Blackford: but it seems like
Bret Blackford: it'd be great if you could have like a a 5 year contract, hey? We? We want to have you till you're 65. But you know.
Bret Blackford: you know, I think we'd want to look for some younger blood while while he's doing that.
Bret Blackford: So my concern is he? He loves preaching, and he's going to keep preaching until he's 70. And do we want to
Bret Blackford: somebody here that's still preaching when he's 70, and and that I don't know. I
Bret Blackford: I'm I'm just struggling with that, and I think you know, I think there, he's got
Bret Blackford: 4 or 5 great good years in them. But you know I just don't know after that, if it's gonna get awkward.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, I I think we just take it. I mean, if we want to continue to talk to him and eventually hire him.
Stephen Walker: I think just like any performance. If it's if he's still doing a good job at 65,
Stephen Walker: we continue to let him do the job. But if we see that there's some deterioration. And you know, in his, in his work. I think we can begin to talk about transitioning then. And so
Stephen Walker: so I I'm not as worried about that part of it because I think we can handle it as we go with that, you know, and in a very kind and you know. Good way. But like Don, I had envisioned something different. But maybe God has something even different than what we envision. Right.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Walker: And so just being open to that, because I I did like
Stephen Walker: Chris Jackson. But Chris is not nearly as dynamic as as John, you know, so
Stephen Walker: dynamic is an old.
Bret Blackford: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: More dynamic, you know. So
Bret Blackford: Yeah, Chris came across like Mr. Rogers to me.
Stephen Walker: So I I'm I'm for. Just let's continue to have the conversation with them, and and kind of see where it leads us. And just be open to that
Stephen Walker: alright.
Bret Blackford: Yeah.
Don Fitzgerald: You know, I for one, in the age thing I for one, I would have been perfectly happy
Don Fitzgerald: with Jeff for another 5 years preaching, but.
Bret Blackford: Right.
Don Fitzgerald: You know.
Steve Awtrey: Yep, but we look what happened with this. Having Jeff being older, the younger people have left.
Don Fitzgerald: Yeah, no, I know. I've seen.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, so it's yeah. And so it's.
Don Fitzgerald: I mean, it's we've really got to decide. If
Don Fitzgerald: if that's what's really important. And we think that's
Don Fitzgerald: you know, I we maybe have to pay more attention to that. But
Don Fitzgerald: again, I I'm kind of like. Walker says. You know, I'm trying to same time kind of listen to see what God might be telling us, you know.
Don Fitzgerald: in that again, we're looking at the candidates he's sending us.
Don Fitzgerald: Yeah. And John certainly stands out at this point, you know. So I think I think.
Don Fitzgerald: carrying it further until something else tells us. It's not.
Don Fitzgerald: you know, like like Steve said, I think we can. We can deal with the deal with it.
Don Fitzgerald: There's another roadblock along the way, but.
Steve Awtrey: Well, and let me throw this one out. You know Chris Jackson. He was pretty impressive. He's got some experience, and even some things.
Steve Awtrey: That are attractive
Steve Awtrey: to the younger generation, just the spiritual direction that that type of thing is very fascinating. And it's something that's
Steve Awtrey: a lot of ministers are doing that. It's not an it's an old practice that that's coming back.
Steve Awtrey: Maybe we do like we did last time we bring both of those guys in. If we think that Chris is something somebody that's a good candidate
Steve Awtrey: and have a second round with him? Maybe not, I don't know.
Steve Awtrey: And and then you bring them both in, and let the church kind of do that again.
Stephen Walker: I I'm for having a second round with them, and then we can evaluate it after the second round.
Steve Awtrey: Hmm.
Don Fitzgerald: Hey? By the way, Brett, I couldn't. The link didn't work that you sent me
Don Fitzgerald: for their sermons and stuff.
Don Fitzgerald: Hey? I got a Google thing that said I wasn't authorized or something.
Don Fitzgerald: So I really haven't been able to listen to. I got the I mean, I listen to the
Don Fitzgerald: zoom, but I couldn't.
Bret Blackford: Right.
Don Fitzgerald: And listen to their.
Bret Blackford: You know.
Don Fitzgerald: I mean, I get to the spreadsheet, and then
Don Fitzgerald: when I click on the sermons, or
Don Fitzgerald: resume, or anything like that, it.
Bret Blackford: Okay.
Don Fitzgerald: Error, 4. 0, 3.
Bret Blackford: Okay.
Don Fitzgerald: Client does not have permission to get URL da da Da from the server.
Bret Blackford: Cause it works for me, I'll I'll look at it. Have has anybody else tried.
Steve Awtrey: Having trouble today, but mine was more. My wi-fi.
Bret Blackford: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: In the basement.
Bret Blackford: I'll look at it, Don and I, if somebody else could look at it too, and see if it works for them, and.
Don Fitzgerald: And again. It's from the worksheet, you know, from the.
Bret Blackford: Right? Yeah, that's correct.
Don Fitzgerald: Excel. Spreadsheet. Yeah.
Bret Blackford: Yeah, okay.
Don Fitzgerald: The link in your email. I go straight to the spreadsheet. Then the link in the spreadsheet.
Bret Blackford: Alright, and you can see the the zoom link in the spreadsheet works for you, but not the other links right.
Don Fitzgerald: No, I get the the same thing when I click on the zoom link in the spreadsheet.
Bret Blackford: Hmm.
Don Fitzgerald: I get the same error.
david weiler: So. I do think
david weiler: as we talk and pray. If we go forward with John, we need to really embrace his suggestion that we spend some time praying with him.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, I agree.
david weiler: That's a zoom call prior to an interview visit. Does he want to come and do that? You know, you know, maybe if we move forward. You gotta confirm the salary thing first, st and then we pray together, or some or maybe that's a deliberate part of that weekend is a meeting with the elders where we pray together, but I do think
david weiler: that's we will get to know him better, and he'll get to know us better by spending some chunk of time praying together.
david weiler: And that was an insightful desire on his part.
david weiler: you know, to help him know what he's getting into.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
david weiler: That I hadn't. I mean, it's always a little part of our gathering, but it's like a very deliberate, focused part. That would be.
david weiler: That would be a valuable next step
david weiler: with him for him if we do that. So.
Stephen Walker: So, Dave, do. Do you think it would be good if we somewhere along, before we even invite them in?
Stephen Walker: For if we decide. We want to invite them in to do a live preaching, to have the salary conversation with them prior to that.
david weiler: Yeah, it needs to be prior to an onsite interview. This.
david weiler: you know. Couple of Zoom Meetings. Then let's solidify some of those dynamics, you know. Send them the whole benefits package thing and say, Hey, you know we're still praying about moving forward with this, you know, is this in range for you. If we do move and establish that, I think, be a good way to do it.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
david weiler: And
david weiler: and a good timing to do it. Yeah, I think for an onsite visit that needs to be established, and for somebody like him with 30. I counted 32 years of ministry experience, different kinds. I think we just give him the 80, the top. You know what we budgeted as opposed to anything below that. And then let let's you know he'll digest that, and it works or doesn't, and we figure out how far off are we. And
david weiler: you know, if we can. If he says, you know, I need 10% more, then he probably still comes in to visit. But if he says, like, you know, we heard from the other, John, it's like, boy, that's a bit too much of a stretch. So yeah.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: Well. And again, he's with the Christian churches that he's been with smaller ones. They don't have the packages, most of them don't. So that's something that'll be attractive to him.
david weiler: Yeah, so.
Bret Blackford: Hey, guys.
david weiler: Oops!
Bret Blackford: Real quick, quick on a technical thing. Can you look in the chat for this.
Don Fitzgerald: I did, and it worked for me. I got.
Don Fitzgerald: I got to the sermons.
Bret Blackford: Okay. So so that works if you click on the links and it'll it'll work.
Steve Awtrey: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: yeah. I went. I got, I was able to get to the sermons for John in the Sullivan church. I was able.
Steve Awtrey: okay, perfect. Okay, good. I just wanna make sure.
Steve Awtrey: And that was from the list. I was able to do it from the list.
Bret Blackford: Okay, yeah. Let me know.
Don Fitzgerald: Me, I guess.
Bret Blackford: Okay.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Bret Blackford: Good.
Stephen Walker: So do we want a second interview with Chris Jackson.
david weiler: I haven't heard the 1st interview to in on that myself, so I'm open to the group. Think here, don't have a opinion yet on him.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Bret Blackford: I I don't know that it hurts. I I like what he said. It's just he just came across like Mr. Rogers, just kind of really Milquetoes, just
Stephen Walker: He said, like an 80 year old man, you know just
Don Fitzgerald: Watch it.
Bret Blackford: Very.
Don Fitzgerald: Like for watching.
Bret Blackford: And in-in.
Stephen Walker: It.
Bret Blackford: And so I it. It was very hard for me, you know it just I was listening to him, but it just he just wasn't very dynamic at all, at least the way he came across for me. So.
Stephen Walker: He's not dynamic.
david weiler: Okay.
Don Fitzgerald: Well, let's don't force something. I mean, if.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, you're right?
david weiler: What was the old thing becoming new again, that you were referring to Steve
david weiler: about Chris Jackson? You said there is something he's becoming more popular again.
Steve Awtrey: Spiritual direction he's got. He's certified as a spiritual director, and 5 years ago I didn't know much about. I know Byron Fike and his wife had been doing some training with it, and then going to Ncym several youth ministers. And there's 1, 2 guys that I taught with, not on spiritual direction, but on something else. They were both spiritual directors. So it was fascinating
Steve Awtrey: talking with them about their experience and how they use that. And and then I went to one of their classes on spiritual direction. And it's and one thing that Chris mentioned is, it's been something that the millennials and Gen. X. The younger generation have been very attracted to something like.
Stephen Walker: To
david weiler: Like a life coach for your spiritual life, or something, or.
Steve Awtrey: Kind of like that. Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Yeah. Scott.
Steve Awtrey: It's not helping them. Resolve issues. It's just helping them to see where God is in their life and in in
Steve Awtrey: in their plans.
Bret Blackford: Dave, if you go to his resume, he there's a link to it, and it it's
Bret Blackford: It's interesting, you know. It seemed very like alcoholics anonymous, that there's a higher power. So he
Bret Blackford: talks about spirituality. But he doesn't talk about any specific branch of it. You know Buddhism, Christianity anything like that, and and he says that he's a Christian, and so it colors his view. But it's and so I was scratching my head on that. But you know, maybe if you use it as a as a gateway, but it just seemed like an alcoholics, anonymous kind of approach, and then also
Bret Blackford: he does a if on his
Bret Blackford: website. Also, there's the the Cairo cross, which is not bad, but it's it's I think it's Anglican.
Bret Blackford: And so I just didn't know if he's just very ecumenical, which
Bret Blackford: isn't necessarily bad. But you know, what is it that he
Bret Blackford: firmly believes in? That's what I just didn't know.
Steve Awtrey: I don't think he's very ecumenical. I think he's
Steve Awtrey: he's I mean, he's at Harding right now. He's pretty church of Christ, and he's had to struggle through a lot of legalism. And that's 1 thing he mentioned on the zoom.
Steve Awtrey: But I I don't. I don't see him being ecumenical and.
Bret Blackford: Yes.
Steve Awtrey: Spiritual direction, just being going to God.
Steve Awtrey: and not do Church of Christ.
Stephen Walker: Well, maybe we can make a decision by next elders meeting on him. Give us time to work through some of the things.
david weiler: Yeah, that seems reasonable. We
david weiler: yeah, you know, we can pray about it. And and he doesn't have an urgent timeline or something or.
Stephen Walker: It does.
david weiler: School schedule to worry about and things like that. So okay, that's good.
Steve Awtrey: And the scheduling for preaching next week is Jim Martin
Steve Awtrey: and Dave. Could you talk with Elizabeth about cutting a check
Steve Awtrey: for Jim? For I think we for $300.
david weiler: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: For that, and and then the week after that is Philip Matheny, and I don't have anybody. After that. I have asked Jerry Jones. I'm I'm kind of getting anxious. I've been kind of waiting to see what what we're doing, so I've asked.
Steve Awtrey: I've asked Jerry Jones if he could come that 23, rd and then August the second.
Stephen Walker: August second, I mean.
Steve Awtrey: I mean, march second, yeah, yeah.
Stephen Walker: Okay, that sounds good, Steve.
Steve Awtrey: And then we've got to figure out what we want to do. You know, it might be bringing somebody in, and then, you know, scheduling people, and then
Steve Awtrey: Maguade and I and I was going to get somebody else to help me with
Steve Awtrey: working on some themes for us to go through with like we've done in the past.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Bret Blackford: And I think we were gonna talk about that at the next elders meeting right Steve back to Eric Mcpherson's letter and the discussion of having a preaching rotation of, you know, hypothetically, Eric, Jeff Kreider, Matthew Barterwell, or Philip Matheny. And then, having, like you're talking about a group that
Bret Blackford: get sermon topics to present to the elders to you know, where are we? Gonna where are we gonna go? What are we gonna talk about?
Stephen Walker: We? We do need to talk. I don't think Archie is gonna be there, but we need to figure out how to have that discussion without actually.
Bret Blackford: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, I yeah. Whatever direction you guys want to go with that, I I'll just give you some of my opinions. Now, 1st of all with Eric. He's teaching this class, and then he's got a lot of other things going on, and and just
Steve Awtrey: between us here with Eric. You never know what he's going to say.
Steve Awtrey: That's a concern I have with with him, although I I tell you
Steve Awtrey: I he's a phenomenal teacher, and even speaker, he's he's phenomenal. He's just he just. He keeps blowing me away. He always has. I hate teaching with him. I always have when we've done our marriage seminars together. I said, Eric, the more of you and the less of me the better this thing will be.
Stephen Walker: You know.
Steve Awtrey: It's just. And and this teaching he's doing on Sunday mornings. Man, I hate the fact that I've got to get up there when he's not there and teach good grief. He's just doing such a good job, and so
Steve Awtrey: having him regularly, I think, even right now with him
Steve Awtrey: teaching a class, I don't think is a good idea, and then just a concern I have there.
Steve Awtrey: and that could just be me. And so if that's just me, that's fine.
Steve Awtrey: But, boy, he's good. He's he's very good.
Steve Awtrey: I was wanting to protect Jeff Kreider
Steve Awtrey: just with him, retiring everything. But he's ready to get in there. He's he's
Steve Awtrey: He's he's open to doing it pretty regularly.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, and he didn't miss a beat when he preached. It was almost like he was just.
Stephen Walker: You know. I preached last week week prior.
Steve Awtrey: I think the one he did 2 weeks ago. I wasn't there, but I listened to it online. That's 1 of his best sermons.
Stephen Walker: He did. Didn't miss a beat. Man.
Stephen Walker: Man. Man, yeah.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: And I think pretty much. Most of those that we've used are good teachers, not as good preachers. But that's okay. In this liminal period. I think that is okay, because it'll help us to appreciate a good preacher that comes in.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: I got an email today from Jason Vincent? He asked. He wanted to preach on Anna
Steve Awtrey: and I. He and he's 1. i was like, he's a good teacher, but not as good
Steve Awtrey: is a preacher. So so all that in mind, whatever you guys decide, and I can
Steve Awtrey: move forth with, whatever you guys decide.
Stephen Walker: So, Steve, we got it scheduled through March second. It's not like.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Walker: That's good. Okay.
Steve Awtrey: Well, I I haven't heard back from Jerry yet. Jerry Jones, so.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: We'll see.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: Take care.
Steve Awtrey: Let me get on here and see if he's sent me anything.
Stephen Walker: So what do you think Cryder might want to preach again, Steve.
Steve Awtrey: Oh, I think probably in March.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: And if Kreider, if Jones can't do it, he's 1. i will probably ask. He wouldn't mind. So, and then we have the thing of? Do we pay him.
david weiler: Hey! Hey! Kreider!
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
david weiler: No, okay. He's a member.
Steve Awtrey: Okay.
david weiler: I I feel like
david weiler: tapping those that have a heart for it, and he's very gifted, and but I just I think you know I I wouldn't think we need to pay me or Brad if we do another sermon, and you know I think Jeff's in that camp now, and that's healthy. Feels.
Steve Awtrey: Anthony.
david weiler: So to just to elaborate on that.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah, okay.
david weiler: Now, if we asked him to do a 6 week series, or you know, or something, we need to protect him from that, maybe once a month at most, or something sounds pretty good, because he's used to doing a series, and he might even suggest it. And I I would resist that.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: And then, Philip Matheny we had talked about because he is a missionary raising funds that we would pay him. But we talked about a series, and I was talking to him about doing 2, and I told him we would pay him
Steve Awtrey: But then he ends up, having to fly out the Burkina Faso. He can't do the second one, so he's only gonna do one.
david weiler: I don't know where that line is, Steve, I hear you.
david weiler: Yeah, I know.
Stephen Walker: I think you committed to to paying him. I think we should, we should, since you
Stephen Walker: committed to doing it, Steve.
Steve Awtrey: Yeah. And and technically, he's not a minister. He's not a member, but but yeah, and he he wouldn't say one way or another, but I think him being a missionary and having to raise his own funds, I feel good about just paying him.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Steve Awtrey: Okay.
david weiler: Do and I I can embrace that
Steve Awtrey: Fighter. We.
david weiler: Did we ever approach Philip again about, hey? Have you thought any more about our opening and things like that?
Steve Awtrey: Yes, I I mentioned it to him. I said we'd like to talk with you sometime, and and I said, Get back with him if you'd be interested, and he never got back with me, so I don't think he's interested. So.
david weiler: Okay, very good. Thanks for doing that.
Steve Awtrey: And I'll probably talk to him again. Say, okay, you know, last chance here, you know. So.
david weiler: Yeah, I think, I interrupted you, Steve, for something else, maybe about Kreider, or whatever.
Steve Awtrey: Oh, well, and and with Kreider, you know, we gave him 3 months of
Steve Awtrey: a paid, you know. So I I get that, too. Yeah.
Bret Blackford: Steve Autry, how's the turnout for this Saturday.
Steve Awtrey: We have 60 signed up, and then
Steve Awtrey: We didn't get anything from Vaughn Hill, but they had a flood in their church, and so probably getting back to them. And I'm I'm going to order 70 chick-fil-a boxes, so
Steve Awtrey: we'll get that
Steve Awtrey: We don't have the staff coming, and so I've got to scurry around to
Steve Awtrey: get some things done. I I thought I would have some help with that, but we'll we'll figure it out, and I got, and and our
Steve Awtrey: or tech people aren't available, so have. It'll be interesting getting that. But we'll get it. It'll go fine.
Stephen Walker: So Mcguan won't be there. Jeff.
Steve Awtrey: No, he won't. -
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
david weiler: And.
Steve Awtrey: He's gonna come up Friday when we're setting up and get it all set up and
Steve Awtrey: well, but it's but it's pretty simple. It is that we're just having one speaker and
Steve Awtrey: So I think it'll be just fine. And I got Jerry Williamson's gonna handle all the Powerpoint, and we only have 10 slides from Jim for that day.
Stephen Walker: So is Jerry bringing his own computer. I wasn't.
Steve Awtrey: I don't know. I've got to have some conversation about that.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: Oh, okay, very good. Well.
Stephen Walker: I know a couple of people mentioned to me that they're signing up after the announcement on Sunday. So I know Collins was one, and then
Stephen Walker: Then let's see, Carrie Ferguson and Brett are 2.
Steve Awtrey: Okay, Brett Brett had signed up. Let me. I'll give you the the list here.
Steve Awtrey: okay, from Mcknight we have. Here's the list
Steve Awtrey: myself and Susan Brett, Blackford, Ross Brown, Brett Ferguson, Carrie Ferguson, Don Fitzgerald Joyce Holmes, Judy Miller, Linda Mueller, Betty Vaughn, Gwen Walker, Steve Walker, Dave Weiler.
Steve Awtrey: That's, our Group.
Stephen Walker: Okay. Okay.
Steve Awtrey: And so you said you mentioned Collins quarter.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, he used to mention Sunday that he was gonna sign up.
Steve Awtrey: Oh, okay, all right, I'll give him a call. But I'm I'm getting some extras so that that'll should cover some.
david weiler: Great.
Stephen Walker: Right, very good.
Stephen Walker: Everybody feel like we got it all wrapped up for tonight.
Stephen Walker: Alright.
Steve Awtrey: We need to. We need to pray for Brad. It sounds like with his work.
Steve Awtrey: Need to encourage him to retire. Man.
Don Fitzgerald: Been doing that for years.
Bret Blackford: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Oh, yeah.
Steve Awtrey: Oh!
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
david weiler: Yeah, let me lead us in a prayer to close.
Don Fitzgerald: And remember, Brad, you're mute.
david weiler: Father once again, we want to thank you for this technology that lets us do this in this way. We're all at home here and can call it a night here soon. Thank you for John, and the chance to plug into his heart and his call to service for you. We thank you for him, and we ask your guidance and your clarity on our path forward with him or any other candidate.
david weiler: and we ask you to bless him with his next step, whether that's at Mcknight or somewhere else. And again we thank you for him. We pray for Brad. We ask you to bless him with the workload that he has lined up this week, and a sick helper, and all of that. We pray that goes well, help him navigate that, and and get done what it needs to get done and and lean on you
david weiler: and father. We pray for the upcoming weekend with all the events. The leadership training that's happening. And the daddy daughter date night and
david weiler: the sermon on Sunday with Jim. And you know, just all these things happening. Thank you for those blessings. We pray. They go well that you'll be glorified by all those activities, and we thank you for them as your blessing on them in Jesus, name Amen.
Stephen Walker: Good. All right.
Bret Blackford: Thanks, brother.
Steve Awtrey: I won't be there Sunday morning
Steve Awtrey: because I got to fly out to to Florida, saving a bunch of youth ministers about $600 to fly in the morning. I didn't want to.
Steve Awtrey: but Jeff Kreider's going to be the host, for Jim Martin.
david weiler: Oh!
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Steve Awtrey: So so then could if you could, Dave, could you make sure that check gets to Jeff to give to Jim.
david weiler: Give to him. Okay, yep, I can do that.
Steve Awtrey: Great thanks, guys. Buddy. Alright. Good night.
Steve Awtrey: Good night.